Traveller-digest      Monday, October 18 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1222



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

test - ignore
RE: Traveller Versions/Supporting our Game (a bit long)
Attention Gear Heads! New Toy!
Re: Traveller Versions/Supporting our Game (rather long)
Itty Bitty Traveller page from an Itty Bitty World...
Re: Traveller Versions and a visit to the Medieval Starship
Re: Traveller Versions and a visit to the Medieval Starship
Army missions
Trade War: A High Guard scenario
Important: The Kinunir Warrant!
Re: Jumpdrives was Re: Norris the Man...
Re: Important: The Kinunir Warrant!
Re: Important: The Kinunir Warrant!
Re: GTL9 5 dTon Shuttle
Planetary Science
Re: GTL9 5 dTon Shuttle
OT question
Re: test - ignore

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:49:35 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@GLJA.com>
Subject: test - ignore

Ping.
- -- 
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:05:58 +0100
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller Versions/Supporting our Game (a bit long)

Jay LaRosee wrote:
> My .02cr on Traveller Versions; I don't care what you play-
> just play and promote it to others. For me, I like having a
> strong, consistant history and background in which to play.
> When I talk to others, its nice when we all have the same
> understanding and common knowledge of the different timeframes. 

For most games I would agree ... but with Traveller a lot of  the
background comes from extrapolation of published works (a process
the TML has raised to a fine art).  With  different  versions  of
Traveller comes different  technical  architectures  (implied  or
stated) and thus different extrapolations are valid.  So you  may
not have a consistant background across all systems.

> Now my rant:
> What I don't like is our contentment to just seek out and game
> with other legacy Travellers. Our player pool is shrinking and
> with it the incentive for publishers to  support  us  with new
> material.
<snip>

I don't think its just a Traveller phenomenon,  my  local  gaming
club has dwindled over the years and is  about  to  fold  due  to
complacency and apathy.  Over the years I have introduced several
people to RPGs and many of them to Traveller  but  the  scope  to
continue this is almost gone now.  Its almost  as  if  everyone's
accepted the inevitability of the demise of gaming.

One bright spot, however,  is  that  BITS  ran  3  separate  RPGA
sactioned adventures during this  year's  Gencon  UK!  BITS  were
even short of Referees and in my group some of the  players  were
new to Traveller.  So Traveller is  visible  and  attracting  new
players (albeit usually from experienced gamers).



Regards PLST
"Rome wasn't burned in a day."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:07:40 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@lucent.com>
Subject: Attention Gear Heads! New Toy!

Something new from ScienceDaily.

- -- quote --
New Mini Microwave Thruster For Satellites Is Most Powerful In
Its Class

October 15, 1999, University Park, Pa. --- Penn State engineers
have miniaturized a satellite propulsion system they originally
built with parts from a microwave oven and produced a new
thruster that draws only as much electricity as a light bulb,
but puts out more thrust than any system in its class. 

Only 2 inches long and 1.25 inches in diameter, the new
mini-thruster depends on a microwave generator used in weather
radar, aircraft radios and other communications applications
instead of the larger kitchen oven magnetron used in the earlier
prototype. Performance tested under simulated space vacuum
conditions using as little as 80 Watts of power, the new
mini-thruster produced the highest thrust for a
continuously-operating low power electrothermal thruster...

The thruster concept is based on the fact that microwaves can be
used to create and maintain a free-floating plasma or superheated,
electrically charged gas within a cavity... If a cold "propellant"
gas is passed through or around the hot plasma in the cavity, the
cold gas will become heated and create thrust when allowed to flow
out through a nozzle. 

Since the plasma creates temperatures higher than those possible
by chemical combustion, the plasma creates more thrust from the
same amount of cold "propellant" gas than chemical combustion...

In recent tests,...[the system was] operated...using nitrogen,
helium and ammonia as propellant gases. The thruster can also
potentially be operated with water as propellant. By means of
spectroscopy, the helium velocity at the nozzle exit was found to
be about 13,000 meters per second. That is the highest measured
specific impulse for a continuously operating low power
electrothermal thruster...

- -- endquote --

ObTrav: Another "background" tidbit for you starship engineers.

I wonder what it can do with popcorn? :-P

The full story can be found at:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/10/991018080035.htm

David

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:38:45 -0000
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Versions/Supporting our Game (rather long)

- -----Original Message-----
From: JLAROSEE@aol.com <JLAROSEE@aol.com>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
Date: Monday, October 18, 1999 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: Traveller Versions/Supporting our Game (a bit long)


>   What I don't like is our contentment to just seek out and game with
other
>legacy Travellers. Our player pool is shrinking and with it the incentive
for
>publishers to support us with new material.

We had a discussion about this very subject as Imperium games was falling.
There are a number of things working against us as Travellers though. In the
two decades since Traveller originally came out, the sci-fi aesthetic has
changed completely. The foundations that Traveller was built on are not
nearly as strong as they used to be.

>The TML list just compiled wasn't
>very long. How many of us running/participating in campaigns actively seek
>fresh meat, I mean players?

I've introduced a number of younger players (between about 18 and 25 or so)
to Traveller in recent years. I'm not just saying this to toot my own horn,
I'm saying this because it's a very difficult process. As I mentioned
already, the sci-fi aesthetic has changed thanks to a major revolution in
the genre. It's the 80s and post-80s sci-fi (what is traditionally known as
Cyberpunk) that the new breed of roleplayers have grown up with and have
fallen in love with.

It is no accident that stores can't keep GURPS Ultra-Tech, GURPS Ultra-Tech
II and GURPS Bio-tech in stores.

There is a real downside to the above. In alot of peoples' minds, the only
good sci-fi is Gibsonian: low lifes and computer hackers running around in a
Blade Runner Japanese-American world popping on chrome arms and getting
skill implants. [Not that I have anything against Gibson, on the contrary, I
like him quite a bit, it's just unfortunate that the most banal aspects of
his writing seem to get the most attention].

The real problem is that it doesn't look, sound, or feel like Traveller. I'm
not saying this to simply make excuses for why Traveller fandom has been
shrinking (or more importantly, has been gaining slower in relation to other
games). I'm saying this because it's the hard reality of our situation as
fans. It has been my experience that Traveller feels dated to young people
today.

It's not just the technology, although I think that it does play a large
part. I used to focus on that quite a bit years ago. You are dealing with
people who have grown up with high-tech and don't see any signs of it
slowing down. We can handwave it away for whatever reasons we can come up
with, but it's still something that's an issue. It was one of the biggest
issues in my previous campaigns.

There are other issues that aren't effectively addressed in the 3I setting.
If you read an author like Sterling, you might see what I mean. He puts
cultures on earth that are plausible, yet distinctly alien. High-tech
muslims, gift-based panarchies, zerowork movements, gerontocratic societies,
information pirates as new great powers... and when he writes off world, the
mix gets even more exciting, post-human societies, ideological technocrats,
etc. [If you've not read Schismatrix, shame on you, go out to your local
library or bookstore and check it out. I don't think you'll be disappointed]

Actually, now that I think of it, it's not just that the sci-fi aesthetic
has changed. The *world* has changed in the intervening years since
Traveller began, or more properly, our understanding of the world has
changed. All of this has begun to trickle down into sci-fi. Things have
changed in the history community, the neo-Marxist voices have quieted down
quite a bit in the last decade or so, which has allowed for different, more
radical understandings of history. "Liberal humanism" has lost its dominance
over literary theory, which has helped to deepen our understanding of
literature in general. In the liberal arts in general, the last twenty years
have been insane.

Okay... to distill that down, our understanding of the world is radically
different than it was 20 years ago. In turn, that understanding of the world
was radically different than it was 20 years before... and so on.

Let's face it... The noted cyberpunk author Greg Bear recently did a prelude
book for Foundation. I can't express how important that is as a symbolic
act. Asimov's universe is clearly one of the strongest influences on the
Third Imperium... and it's been added to by a thoroughly modern voice.

I don't propose anything. I'm just popping my head up for my [roughly]
annual, "We have to admit Traveller does not appeal to the youth of today,"
statement.

>How many of us talk the game but haven't sat down
>at a table with other players in a long, long time?

Too long right now (and it's been less than a year for me).

>our aquantances/co-workers our hidden passion? Are we embarrassed at still
>playing an "old" game?

I don't think it's just that. Older adults have never been a huge segment of
the roleplaying market. If you don't get new players by the time that they
come out of college, it's unlikely you're going to get them at all. I was
lucky. I found my older brother's Traveller stuff when I was really, really
young and it ignited my imagination.

>Am I preaching to the choir? Probably, but I worry
>that the current generation of fellow Travellers is shrinking (as recent
sad
>news points out-sorrow :-( ) without a new generation rising in its place.

A new generation of players means changes in the way that the Traveller
universe works. We've got a number of voices here on the TML who are experts
in one or more areas, whether they're "armchair experts" like me, or
professionals. I would say that I think that it's high time to start
harnessing this wealth of information... but it's already happening. The
Traveller Culture Mailing list and the recent re-emergence of the HIWG
Mailing List attest to that.

I'll say what I've said many, many times in the past: As long as there is a
DGP hegemony over canon, Traveller's background will stagnate. Fortunately,
things have changed a little bit since the publishing of GURPS Traveller.

>I think its past time to give our game some visability.


I agree. Mike Peters and I were talking about running Traveller demo games
at our FLC/GS, but that idea seemed to peter out (no pun intended). I'm
still very interested, even though I have considerably less time to do it
now that I've made the leap from part-time student to full-time student.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:46:16 -0500
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortelnetworks.com>
Subject: Itty Bitty Traveller page from an Itty Bitty World...

Corlano, a rich world at the edge of the wilderness, in a homebrew
Reidain subsector just Spinward of the Third Imperium, has put up
a fledgeling web page containing mostly odds and ends... and mostly
images.

So come visit Corlano's Olbeta Downport webpage.
Comments welcome!

http://www.members.home.net/eaglestone/olbetaDown.html

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:37:00 +0100
From: "Paul Campbell" <kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller Versions and a visit to the Medieval Starship

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- ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Seamans <semo@pil.net>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 1:36 AM
Subject: Re: Traveller Versions and a visit to the Medieval Starship


>
> Well, keep in mind that a few task systems that can be grafted on to GURPS
> have come out of the discussion, and more than a few mistaken assumptions
> have been cleared up. It's not like the debate has been completely
useless.
> I have to say that I've found it rather interesting so far.
>

Forgive me, I'm new to the list.  Does anyone have a summary of the results
of that GURPS task system?

Thanks.

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:21:34 -0000
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Versions and a visit to the Medieval Starship

From: Paul Campbell <kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
Date: Monday, October 18, 1999 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: Traveller Versions and a visit to the Medieval Starship


>Forgive me, I'm new to the list.  Does anyone have a summary of the results
>of that GURPS task system?


Not I. If nobody else can help you out, email me, and I'll go through my
archives.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:27:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Army missions

> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 11:22:06 +1000
> From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
> Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED: Out of ammo alert
> 
> All this ignores the fact that most armies spend their time in internal
> security/repression style activities, where gadgets are _relatively_
> secondary, and PBIs with rifles are relatively important.  And that's only
> considering the armies of recognised states.  Their opponents are usually
> more or less guerillas, or distinctly undertrained militias.

Exactly.  The dilemma of the modern US Army is that they are being asked
to be simultaneously a 21st-century war fighting machine -- optimized for
slugging it out with technologicially similar opponents on a gadget-rich
battlefield in open, free-for-all combat -- and a 'peace force', optimized
for 'friendly' occupation and low-intensity policing of territory in the
presence of possible guerilla or partisan (or even lone civilian)
attacks.

The Army's response (slow and uncertain though it may be) seems to be to
split the force between these roles, rather than trying to do both with
'standard' infantry divisions.  A new force structure is being examined,
with lighter, more easily mobilized divisions being used in 'humanitarian'
and police-action roles, while more traditional heavy mech infantry deals
with pitched battles.  It seems as reasonable a course as any; the two
roles certainly require vastly different equipment, training, and (perhaps
most importantly) attitudes among the soldiers.

The UN intervention in Timor was instructive in this regard.  The Ghurkas
were among the first units on the ground, and their initial mission was
purely tactical (securing the airfield and embassy).  Very quickly,
though, they transitioned into serving as more of a psychological than a
physical force; even with less than 200 of them on the scene, there was
apparently a wide (and prudent) unwillingness among would-be bad guys to
continue misbehaving with even the threat of going up against such
legendarily effective troops.  The Ghurkas, being at the pinnacle of
professionalism and training, served admirably in both roles (they were
widely complimented on their friendliness and helpfulness to civilians and
Indonesian troops, for example).  Less seasoned and confident troops may
fair far less well in similar situations.

> The small professional armies are only those of a minority of countries. 
> Somalia and Vietnam suggest that they aren't necessarily all that superior
> either, when it comes to a clash, at least in terms of actually achieving
> the political goals of the conflict.

A big part of the problem in both those conflicts was a lack of clear
goals, and a total mismatch between what goals there were and both the
forces dispatched and the realities encountered in the field.  Clausewitz
would weep.

- -- 
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--  http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |   "They do not preach that their God will rouse them
      a little before the nuts work loose." - Kipling

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:31:22 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Trade War: A High Guard scenario

I'm arranging some battles on the internet (email, IRC, chat room, 
however the opponents can work it out) to playtest a High Guard
scenario I've been working on. If you'd like to participate, please come
to http://users.hartwick.edu/smithw/hgtradewar.htm to see the design
parameters. We'll be starting the matchups presently, but the design
deadline isn't until 01-November-1999.

If interested, please email me at smithw@hartwick.edu

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:01:06 -0000
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Important: The Kinunir Warrant!

The final resting place of the Imperial Warrant that was on the Kinunir has
been hotly debated for many years. Some say Norris used it to keep the peace
and stability of the Spinward Marches. Others swear that they were part of
the adventuring party that found it and they used it mainly to circumvent
local authorities when they got into fusion powered bar brawls.

The truth is much, much more frightening. A deep cover IISS Scout was
recently found, a victim of "spacing," in the [CLASSIFIED] Subsector. A
small holocube was found in his stomach. Go to
http://www.pil.net/~semo/warrant.jpg to see what was on it. Please pass this
on to other loyal and patriotic Imperial citizens and let them know what a
threat to Imperial security this is.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 07:56:09 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Jumpdrives was Re: Norris the Man...

"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net> writes:
>My real reason isn't technobabble, that's just the justification for
>my reasons.  <g> For strategic and economic reasons, I want the
>ships to have to follow the star patterns, in particular J1 and J2
>mains.

You know Eris, if you used something like Stutterwarp as jumpdrive, this
would be really easy to do <grin>.

Dom

- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:11:28 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@GLJA.com>
Subject: Re: Important: The Kinunir Warrant!

Chris Seamans wrote:
> 
> The truth is much, much more frightening. A deep cover IISS Scout was
> recently found, a victim of "spacing," in the [CLASSIFIED] Subsector. A
> small holocube was found in his stomach. Go to
> http://www.pil.net/~semo/warrant.jpg to see what was on it. Please pass this
> on to other loyal and patriotic Imperial citizens and let them know what a
> threat to Imperial security this is.

SPLORT! Now, cut that out! I think we need to start posting warnings in the
subject lines of these messages so us innocents with clean keyboards have some
time to prepare!
- -- 
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:18:41 -0500
From: Chris Olson <chris@pdaguy.com>
Subject: Re: Important: The Kinunir Warrant!

Chris Seamans wrote:

> The final resting place of the Imperial Warrant that was on the Kinunir has
> been hotly debated for many years. Some say Norris used it to keep the peace
> and stability of the Spinward Marches. Others swear that they were part of
> the adventuring party that found it and they used it mainly to circumvent
> local authorities when they got into fusion powered bar brawls.
>
> The truth is much, much more frightening. A deep cover IISS Scout was
> recently found, a victim of "spacing," in the [CLASSIFIED] Subsector. A
> small holocube was found in his stomach. Go to
> http://www.pil.net/~semo/warrant.jpg to see what was on it. Please pass this
> on to other loyal and patriotic Imperial citizens and let them know what a
> threat to Imperial security this is.

1, 2, 3, ...

DEAR GOD IN HEAVEN!

NNNNOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Chris Olson :-)
chris@pdaguy.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:17:05 -0500
From: "Bont" <felix@felixcafe.com>
Subject: Re: GTL9 5 dTon Shuttle

> Bont writes:
> > Actually, with the Contragrav, you can use 1.65 G for the 
> > acceleration in orbital calculations.  And I didn't say it was the
> > optimal solution.  I just said it was the most flexible.
> 
> No, you can't use 1.65 Gs.  Contragravity merely negates gravity, it
> doesn't give any bonus thrust.  It basically means you can figure
> travel times as if they were straight-line paths in deep space (with
> no major gravitational fields involved).
> 

The reason I made the statement was because my calculations 
came out the same either way.  Perhaps you can show me where 
my calculations are wrong.  It has been years since I took physics.

Assume 200 mi orbit. d = (at^2)/2

This first formula assumed reaching orbit with CG.

200 mi = ((accShip - accPlanet) x Time x Time) / 2

Now we can negate the affects of the planet's pull because of CG.

200 mi = ((0.65g - 1gPlanet + 1gCG) x Time^2) / 2 
200 mi = ((0.65g) x Time^2) / 2

(200 * 5280)ft = (((32 ft/(sec^2)) * 0.65)) / 2) ((x^2)(sec^2))
1056000 = 10.4 * (x^2)

Time or x = 318.65 secs.

This second formula assumed reaching orbit without CG (we will 
pretend it adds 1 g of acceleration to ship for purposes of reaching 
orbit).

200 mi = ((accShip - accPlanet) x Time x Time) / 2

200 mi = ((1.65g - 1g) x Time^2) / 2
200 mi = ((0.65g) x Time^2) / 2

(200 * 5280)ft = (((32 ft/(sec^2)) * 0.65)) / 2) ((x^2)(sec^2))
1056000 = 10.4 * (x^2)

Time or x = 318.65 secs.

Unless I am suffering from a Gross Conceptual Error I believe you 
can make the assumption I made.  Where did I go wrong?


- - - -
FELIX (Thomas L Bont)

- - Encrypt your messages!
  That way only the government knows what you wrote!

- - It is truly the wise man that knows what he doesn't!

- - With your shield or on it ... (Old Spartan Blessing)

- - Fidelitas super omnia, honore excepto

- - Help Stop Forest Fires.  Outlaw Matches.

Be sure to visit The FELIX Cafe at
     http://www.felixcafe.com/

- - - -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:31:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Planetary Science

Hi all.  

FYI, the most recent issue of Science (October 1st, 1999) has a great
section on recent advances in our understanding of planetary formation.
There's a bunch of articles on everything from extrasolar planets to the
possibility of liquid water in the core of Charon (!).  The main points
seem to be: 1) Planet formation is incredibly chaotic and random, 2) Life
may exist in a wider range of places than previously thought.

Definately of interest to those with a thing for planet/system design.

Charles C.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:37:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: GTL9 5 dTon Shuttle

Bont writes:
> > No, you can't use 1.65 Gs.  Contragravity merely negates gravity, it
> > doesn't give any bonus thrust.  It basically means you can figure
> > travel times as if they were straight-line paths in deep space (with
> > no major gravitational fields involved).
> > 
> 
> The reason I made the statement was because my calculations 
> came out the same either way.  Perhaps you can show me where 
> my calculations are wrong.  It has been years since I took physics.
> 
> Assume 200 mi orbit. d = (at^2)/2
> 
> This first formula assumed reaching orbit with CG.
> 
> 200 mi = ((accShip - accPlanet) x Time x Time) / 2
> 
> Now we can negate the affects of the planet's pull because of CG.
> 
> 200 mi = ((0.65g - 1gPlanet + 1gCG) x Time^2) / 2 
> 200 mi = ((0.65g) x Time^2) / 2
> 
> (200 * 5280)ft = (((32 ft/(sec^2)) * 0.65)) / 2) ((x^2)(sec^2))
> 1056000 = 10.4 * (x^2)
> 
> Time or x = 318.65 secs.
> 
> This second formula assumed reaching orbit without CG (we will 
> pretend it adds 1 g of acceleration to ship for purposes of reaching 
> orbit).
> 
> 200 mi = ((accShip - accPlanet) x Time x Time) / 2
> 
> 200 mi = ((1.65g - 1g) x Time^2) / 2
> 200 mi = ((0.65g) x Time^2) / 2
> 
> (200 * 5280)ft = (((32 ft/(sec^2)) * 0.65)) / 2) ((x^2)(sec^2))
> 1056000 = 10.4 * (x^2)
> 
> Time or x = 318.65 secs.
> 
> Unless I am suffering from a Gross Conceptual Error I believe you 
> can make the assumption I made.  Where did I go wrong?

Well first of all, you're talking about a different case now -- 0-200 miles is not the same as going to 100D, which is what was referred to before.  Secondly, the two figures aren't the same because CG is directed straight down only, which may not be the most useful direction for it (note that a ship capable of 1.65 Gs can apply 1 G for lifting and 1.31 Gs for accelerating towards orbital velocity...)
> 
> Be sure to visit The FELIX Cafe at
>      http://www.felixcafe.com/
> 
> - - -
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:16:36 -0500
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com>
Subject: OT question

Does anyone here know how often GPS sats have to be replaced?

Please reply to lkw@io.com, not to the TML.



Loren Wiseman
     Art Director  / Traveller Line Editor
     Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     SJ Games
     LKW@IO.COM
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:37:23 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: test - ignore

At 10:49 AM 10/18/99 -0600, you wrote:
>Ping.

	Pong.

- -- A popular Government, without popular information, or the
   means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a
   Tragedy; or, perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern
   ignorance: And a people who mean to be their own Governors,
   must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives. 
   -- James Madison

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1222
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